With DEI rollbacks affecting every facet of American business and culture, this week’s episode of the Run-Through is a timely conversation between Nicole Phelps and Aurora James, the founder the 15% Pledge, a nonprofit organization whose aim is to engage retailers to give 15% of their shelf space to Black-owned businesses. The Brother Vellies founder and designer brainstormed the idea for the organization in 2020.

“In the wake of George Floyd’s murder, I was getting a lot of calls and texts from different people in the industry—not just fashion—but major retailers across America,” she explains. “Small businesses were getting annihilated during the pandemic; 44% of Black-owned businesses were expected to close—which was double the national average—and 90% of Black-owned businesses didn’t get access to the first round of PPP money. So I [looked] to those retailers and I thought, okay, they’re good at selling product, and Black people are almost 15% of the population, so major retailers should consider committing 15% of their shelf space to Black-owned businesses.” She wrote down her idea on the Notes app on her phone (“where most of the brilliant ideas live”), posted it on Instagram, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Except of course, that’s only when the hard work began. Five years later, with DEI a hot-button topic, it could be said that the 15% Pledge is more vital than ever. In this candid conversation James talks about the organization’s success stories, the importance of industry support for small, independent brands, and the responsibility she feels to ensure the organization’s success.

“If it were to fail, then the narrative becomes, ‘oh, actually DEI is a horrible thing, giving founders of color opportunities isn’t necessary.’” She went on to say: “But for me, it’s: Did these and do these opportunities to give everyone a more equal starting line in the race bear fruit? It’s hard to see that instantly, but I really do believe that we’re proving that out; that part I feel really good about.” Listen to the episode below.